The alchemist R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz talked about two types of knowledge, explicit and implicit. Explicit knowledge is concerned with the world, the material, the facts. it is actually the basis of the Scientific Method. Implicit knowledge is that which we, as individuals, draw up fro the sum total of our experiences. For instance take the sentence

This Statement is false.

Explicitly, it is a group of words that delivers a message. On the other hand, explicitly, it is a paradox, and cannot be resolved. Implicitly, we can see it is a paradox almost immediately, and can disregard the statement as impossible. Now while for a human consciousness this seems simple and obvious, for a machine it is a real problem. They are apparently unable to view the implicit meaning, and the explicit meaning causes them to go into a logic loop. The Mathematician Kurt Gödel proved that the same problem exists in any form of artificial thought (any system sufficiently powerful enough, in his exact terms).


It’s The Economy, stupid!

This is 90 minutes long, but it is well worth the time spent, especially if you are getting tired of wondering how you will pay something every time you turn around. So very few people understand how and why our economy can be so rich, so powerful, so vast, and yet, for the average person, the average family, it is a constant struggle to stay above water.

Somewhere in Time

According to the latest science, the earth is about 4 and a half billion years old, and of that time, it has been relatively inhabitable for about possibly as long as 3 billion years or so. In their book, Forbidden Archaeology, authors Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson present fascinating evidence that life forms capable of tools and technology that dates to incredibly ancient times, as old as the Precambrian Era, 2.8 billion years ago. According to the standard myth, Homo Sapiens appeared about 130,000 years ago, with the oldest civilizations dated to roughly 6,000 years ago. If it takes about 10,000 years to build a civilization, then, time wise, there has been more than sufficient time for 280,000 advanced civilizations to develop on earth.

There is certainly no end of evidence of the older civilizations, with the list constantly growing as new finds are made. Even though the mainstream tends to downplay these finds, some are just too big, like Gobekli Tepe, dated at 10,000 years ago. There are also numerous finds that are rock, and thus far impossible to date. Petra is an example of one of these sites. The technology belies the date given to it. Petra is completely carved out of living rock. The ancient civilization seems to do this a lot. With very primitive tools, they carved, transported and placed blocks of stone weighing 200 tons or more, they carve massive chambers out of living rock. They do things that, given their tools, are insane.

I believe it is more likely that they used huge stones, because they could easily quarry, shape, move and place them. Being pragmatic in that way, I don’t think people with bronze tools and no wheel look at a granite cliffs and thought to themselves that a good idea is blocks the size of houses. They had technology we do not know about, or understand. For them to move a 200 ton block into place on a wall with such precision that even today a thin blade cannot be inserted between them was a task well within the limits of their technology.

Stealing a term from Joseph P. Farrell, I call these builders the paleoancients. It isn’t particularly accurate, and it is redundant, but I like the sound of it, and so far science doesn’t seem to give it enough concern to have a name for it. We have almost no data on the Paleoancients. We know they could move huge blocks, we know they were around long before Sumer and Egypt flowered. We know they almost entirely disappeared from the earth. The rest is speculation. The stories from the Vedas point to a memory of a terrible war, one with flying machines and missiles, fought in vastly ancient times (-80,000). I believe the Paleoancients flourished in the time just before our own civilization began, if fact, I believe we are their legacy, a good deal of our myths are memories of the time.

I do not know what destroyed their cultures. I assume there was more than one, since our myths say they fought a war. It is very likely they destroyed themselves, and possibly brought the planet to an extinction event. One reason I believe we do not see more of them is simply we do not look in the right places. It is easy enough to put forward that these people lived during the last ice age, and at that time water levels were entirely different then they are now. Even if there aren’t vast parts of the globe completely decimated, we theorize that water levels were 400 feet (120 meters) lower at the height of the last ice age. The Mediterranean is half its current size, Africa touches Sicily. The Red Sea is almost dry land.

Ice Age Med


In any event, their cultures WERE destroyed, either by war or natural disaster, and all that remained were the few scattered bands of survivors. There are traces of them in legends around the world, as teachers and leaders who brought civilization to the local tribes. There appears to have been a group in Northern Ethiopia, and another in the area between Lake Van and the Caspian Sea (the source of Western Eden Myths). This coincides with Farrell’s description of the cultures of the Paleoancients. He suggests there were three main cultures, The Vedics, The Osirians and The Atlantians. Similar myths exist for China and the Americas, in fact one of the amazing earth facts is that the same myths seem to be everywhere, along with evidence of a similarity of technology and tastes. Considering a bit of time for development, we are looking for some cataclysm at about 10,000 years ago. Otto Muck places the destruction of Atlantis at the point of a asteroidal impact in -8498. Muck also states this impact caused the mid-Atlantic ridge as well as the Carolina Bays. If correct, this may dovetail with another theory by Prof  Charles Hapgood. He proposed that a 15 degree pole shift occurred around -9,600 (approx. 11,600 years ago). The two dates are plus or minus 5% to be the same event, not bad considering we mostly only have myths to work with.

These Paleoancients who walked the earth and taught the indigenous species in the ways of Civilization left their footprints. If Science was interested, we might know a great deal more of them. But Science is not interested, no matter how much evidence comes forward. They will hide, lie, deny and murder the heretics who point to the obvious clues. Nothing shows the strength of Myth in our sciences than this simple fact.

When presented with the evidence that the Sphinx in Egypt was water eroded by a society of geologists, they said, and I am not making this up, that geologists are not allowed to comment on archaeology, it is not their specialty. While I agree that geologist probably don’t know much about archaeology, I am forced to concede they do know about rocks, and erosion, and any rock, be it part of an archaeological find or not, is a rock. When a robot camera explored the shaft of it discovered a door, with metal seals. The exploration of this door has captured the imagination of everyone who has heard of it. But the same exploration found another artifact, a wooden rod. This evidence is gone. it is never mentioned, and unless you use old internet archives, it has even been sterilized from all reports on the robot explorations. Like the pieces of wood and iron found behind a stone in the late 19th century by Vyse and Dixon (and subsequently LOST by the British Museum) it is something that is carefully left out. Wood can be carbon dated. Iron is an anomaly in the official explanation. It almost seems they do not want the truth to be learned.

It is my belief that a good deal of that was left to us by the Paleoancients is quite beyond our comprehension in those very ancient times. It lies buried in myths and misinterpreted texts, it lies hidden in secret teaching. It is taboo now, as it has always been, to look to these secrets. Indeed, in the fringes of science, we find researchers looking to these obscure texts, long thought meaningless or imagination, and finding clues to the cutting edge of our search.




Stanley Meyers and his Water Fuel Cell

StanleyMeyersDuneBuggyStanley Meyers built a water cell, or so he said. Oddly enough, since the patents on his cell are now public domain, one would imagine that if they worked we would see them everywhere. But we do not. I have not heard of anyone trying to commercially produce one. The whole idea of using water as a power source seems, at first glance, a silly idea. I mean, REALLY? But here’s the thing. Stan was a big deal. He said he had a car that ran on water (currently owned by someone in Canada). He was the star of a documentary by Arthur C. Clark. He worked for NASA. He is a martyr of the alternative energy crowd.

Why a martyr? Well, the story goes that he met with two “Belgian” business men in a restaurant for reasons unknown. His brother Stephen tells the story:

Stephen Meyer recalls the events of that evening — “Stanley took a sip of cranberry juice. Then he grabbed his neck, bolted out the door, dropped to his knees and vomited violently. I ran outside and asked him, “What’s wrong?’ ” Stephen recalled. “He shouted, ‘They poisoned me!’ That was his dying declaration.”

The autopsy report says he died of a brain aneurysm. I don’t know, but I do not think this sort of death gives one a whole lot of time to make declarations, run around, throw up, or much of anything else, I believe, as they say, you are dead before you hit the floor. Certainly the police had doubts:

Meyer’s death was laced with all sorts of stories of conspiracy, cloak-and-dagger stories,” said Grove City Police Lt. Steve Robinette, lead detective on the case.

And additionally, Stephen had this to say about telling the “Belgians”:

If Stephen Meyer was shocked at his twin brother’s collapse and death, he was equally amazed at the Belgians’ response the next day.“I told them that Stan had died and they never said a word,” he recalled, “absolutely nothing, no condolences, no questions. I never, ever had a trust of those two men ever again.”

All quite strange. Was Stanley murdered for what he had discovered? More to the point, what happened to his work? Where are the proof of concept vids on Youtube? I mean, alternative energy is a big thing right now. And Stan is considered right about up there  with Tesla. Stan left everything anyone who cared to try needed to continue his work. So, all things considered, why is no one continuing his work? My guess is, of course, they are. Imagine if you had a way to produce energy from water. You would be wealthy and famous beyond measure. My guess is a LOT of people are.

My point is, this information is clearly out there, you would have to be a fool to think it isn’t. But it is being kept from the public, from society. It is just tossed into the same bucket as “conspiracy theories” and not talked about, hoping no one will notice.

For what it’s worth, here’s my piece on Stan’s work. He talked about the importance of resonance and vibration in the making of his cell. Unlike the usual electric division of water into Hydrogen and Oxygen through typical electrolysis, Meyers’ engine uses rapid pulsing of power to fracture the atoms, which was supposed to account for a yield that surpassed the input energy requirements.

The Anomalous Piri Reis Map

In 1513 Piri Reis, an Ottoman admiral, compiled a map. Today, about 1/3 of it remains. He admitted compiling it from other, older maps he had laying around. When he heard the news that Columbus had “found” the Indies, considering his source maps, I doubt he was very surprised. Clearly, he was already aware of something lying to the west. And to the south. This map is  certainly anomalous, showing South America and Africa in proper longitude to within a few parts of a single degree.

But there’s more! According to Charles Hapgood and his students, it also shows Antarctica, free of ice. While showing proper longitude 300 years before the invention of a reliable way to actually measure longitude, it is still explainable through the wise use of mathematics and a good knowledge of latitude, which has existed since the time of the Sumerians. An ice free Antarctica presents a different problem. The source for this map could be traced to a time when the region was free of ice, which we, with all our scientific expertise, have determined was about 34 Million years ago. So, either someone mapped Antarctica 34 Million years ago, or we are wrong about our estimates of exactly when the miles of ice currently covering it came to be. Either way, in 1513 no one had a clue Antarctica was there at all, ice covered or otherwise. The first modern sighting of Antarctica occurred on November 18, 1820.

For me it comes down to this, at some point there was a being walking the earth, smart enough to engage in cartography, at a time when there was no ice on the coast of Antarctica. There is absolutely no record of when, how, or why this was done, in fact, there is no reason to assume that is was done in any historical time, since modern history begins in about 6,000 BC, and by that time the ice was very thick, and we have absolutely no record of any technology capable of penetrating the ice shelf until the 20th Century.

This, to me, is clearly an artifact of what John Farrell calls the paleoancient civilization. I like that word, Mr. Farrell, and will happily steal it. It has a wonderful redundancy and wry sarcasm inherent in it that just suits me. By paleoancient I mean, before the most ancient civilizations we know of, before the Sumerians, before we have any real records, a time, which for us, is only a myth now.

How Flat My Earth

Hey, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone else. JFK was assassinated by Alien Russian Nazi Transsexual Ocelots working for the mob? I’m in. The moon landing was faked by Stanley Kubrick? Let’s put on the tinfoil and take the ride! The Queen of England is a Lizard Alien? Gimme the details! The earth is flat? Su…..wait…WHAT?????

The earth is FLAT?

This guy, one *Mad* Mike Hughes, launched himself to the starting height of 1,800 feet to…ahem…*prove* the earth is flat. You know, I am not a big fan of Neil deGrasse Tyson, my normal opinion of him being *even a stopped watch is right twice a day.* But this must be once of his times a day to be right, cuz,  I totally agree with him on this one. Mad Mike has had too many mushrooms on his pizza. Mike isn’t alone in his determination to prove the earth is flat, as it turns out, there are quite a few people with their tinfoil wrapped just a little too tight. Thousands, maybe millions, if their PR is to be believed, of our brothers and sisters do indeed believe the earth is flat. They are not agreed on whether or not it has a dome over it, or if it is located on the back of a turtle, but they are agreed on this one point…earth is a frisbee in space.

It seems to me that we have actually known…”believed”…the earth is more or less roundish for quite some time, in fact, I would propose that one of the very first acts of any technological society is to determine that very basic size and shape of their home planet. As it turns out, I am probably right, since there is plenty of evidence that the Sumerians were aware of the notion of a spherical planet. The Pyramid Builders seem to have had the same idea. The Greeks were the first to actually write about it. Eratosthenes (-276 to -195) estimated the circumference as 25,000 miles, pretty close.

The fact is, it is fairly easy to discern that the earth is at least curved. Standing on the shore of any suitable body of water will show distant objects “sinking” into the horizon. In some cases, a bit of basic math will allow a small determination of its size.


Here is a picture of the Toronto Tower, taken from Niagara on The Lake, about 30 miles away. Clearly the entire tower isn’t visible. Next to it is a picture of the complete tower. Using simple trigonometry I am sure one can actually figure out the curve of the surface of the lake. I am also quite sure one will arrive at the same answer as the Greeks did, some 2300 years ago.

What is more of a concern to me is the fact that since Science has sold itself out to corporate interests, big money and the current mythology, no one trusts it anymore, it no longer provides us with what we expect from it, accurate data on our existence. I do not see this in a few extraordinary thoughts, I see it permeating society at all levels. Everywhere, data is discredited in favor of impressions, feelings, and emotional attachments to popular mythologies.

Second Amendment Follies

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” -Bill of Rights

The first two rights in the American Bill of Rights are what I call *natural rights*. By this I mean they belong to everyone, and can never be denied to anyone for any reason. Any reasonable interpretation of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” by definition, acknowledges the existence of these natural rights. The first is the right to thoughts, feelings and opinions, and the ability to express them. It is impossible to even contrive a method of controlling what a person thinks and feels, and should, in my opinion, be considered torture to even try. Most of psychology actually exists because of repression of these thoughts, feelings and opinions. The second is the right to defend one’s self and one’s family from danger. “Self Defense” is a permissible defense for almost any level of action towards an attacker.

There is quite a bit of brouhaha in America these days about both these natural rights, and it would be comical to watch the contortions various tyrants are going thorough to try and deny them to some other group of society if it were not so fucking sad. Of course, as Michael so accurately noted in Stranger in a Strange Land:

“I’ve found out why people laugh. They laugh because it hurts so much . . . because it’s the only thing that’ll make it stop hurting.” – Michael Valentine Smith

So, today I want to say a few things about the Second Amendment. The attacks on the right to defend ourselves have reached a level where I actually fear it will cause society to engage in a possible needful exercise demonstrating the natural right of defense, in common parlance, a war.

Bump Stocks, Trigger Cranks, Assault Weapons, and so much more are vain attempts to nibble away at this right, even as the world so vastly shows us how futile such endeavors are. The right to defend is a NATURAL RIGHT, it cannot be denied, it is impossible, insane and tyrannical to even try. And look around. Do rebel groups have any trouble getting arms? Nope. Not a bit of trouble. How about criminals? Nope. In Australia, they have a fucking “new crime” where someone has a gun, and uses it not to hurt, but merely to threaten. Removing, or attempting to remove, the right of defense leads to tyranny, either by individuals (criminals) or institutions.

And now we have “ghost guns.” Anyone with about 2,000 USD can make countless fully functional firearms, in their office, basement or garage. All that is needed is a computer (it doesn’t even need to be a very good one, an old IBM 386 will serve quite well), some drafting software and a CNC machining center and/or 3D printer. To add insult to injury, if you will, there is a whole community built around the development and sharing of software to build these weapons as open source programs (which are protected by not the second amendment, but the first amendment). No one, ever, for the rest of time, can be denied access to a firearm. Technology is a wonderful thing.

Admittedly, the one can currently make are…rough and unrefined. (I am reminded of the FP-45 Liberator of WW2.) But, as with any technology, they won’t be for long. In only a few years, grenade launchers, SAM’s, name it. If you can design it you can build it. I spent a long time in manufacturing, and I can tell you, it is not IF it is WHEN. No government, no individual, no amount of repression can stop it, or even slow it. I have pondered before, and I ponder now, could it be that 3D printers are the beginnings of what will in 100 years be the “replicators” of Star Trek fame? Will we one day make all our “needs” directly from the Universal Source? Consider where this technology has already brought us, BOTH natural rights are now irrevocable. First, we received the network, where everyone can have their say, and now, self defense. It isn’t hard to see where this is going. 3D printers can already print “food” of a sort, and transportation and housing. Further, science is coming slowly to the point of beginning to understand the infinite energies that lie waiting all around us, and their very intimate relationships with existence.

So where does that leave us? Well, I will offer this. We could begin trying to find other ways to deal with each other. Perhaps bullying people to accept our needs, or putting our needs above theirs isn’t a great way to run a society. I am reminded of Gandhi, who over threw the British Rule in India with peaceful resistance, or Martin Luther King, who brought huge advances to race relations with peaceful demonstrations. We have little choice now. Everyone is armed, any one can and will defend themselves if forced to. Equality.

“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity.” -Gandhi

Said another way: “You will get more with a kind word, and a gun, than with just a kind word.” I see this as a huge step forward for liberty and a free society. The absolute and irrevocable guarantee of the security that comes with self defense allows a free society to consider other issues. Tyrants and bullies, predators in general, have lost most, if not all, of their power over us. It has been well demonstrated countless times that societies that have come to terms with the inevitable truth of a natural right actually have a freer life, in many ways. Certainly, less crime, but more to the point, bullies and tyrants cannot exercise any power over the individual, and for the most part, without that power, most of them are sad and hurt individuals who can now be healed by the community. The sources of their pain can be addressed in peaceful and loving ways. Compromises that attend to the needs of every individual can be sought, consensus reached, instead of the repression and violence that bullies and tyrants rely upon to force their will on others.

In closing, one last quote:

“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.” – attributed to Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II.

Words for the day

“I had been in thirteen battle engagements, had sunk a submarine, and was the first man ashore in the landing at Roi. In that four years, I thought, What a hell of a waste of a man’s life. I lost a lot of friends. I had the task of telling my roommate’s parents about our last days together. You lose limbs, sight, part of your life–for what? Old men send young men to war. Flag, banners, and patriotic sayings… We’ve institutionalized militarism. This came out of World War Two… It gave us the National Security Council. It gave us the CIA, that is able to spy on you and me this very moment. For the first time in the history of man, a country has divided up the world into military districts… You could argue World War Two had to be fought. Hitler had to be stopped. Unfortunately, we translate it unchanged to the situation today… I hate it when they say,”He gave his life for his country.”Nobody gives their life for anything. We steal the lives of these kids. We take it away from them. They don’t die for the honor and glory of their country. We kill them.” — Admiral Gene LaRocque

*You must give yourself to love,
If love is what you’re after.”– Kate Wolf

Be Here Now

…we are only aware of 2,000 bits of information out of the 400 billion bits of information we are processing per second… -What the *bleep* do we know?

According to science (and common sense), our experience of reality is dated. It is said it takes about 80 ms for us to process, and present, the data we have received. It takes time for nerves to pass along the signal, and more time for it to be filtered. Our picture of the world is, from the inception, history. Strangely, there is evidence this is not 100% true. Certain responses happen far quicker than would be expected if this were always true. When you touch something incredibly hot, you will withdraw your finger very quickly, faster than it would take for a hot signal to be passed to your brain, and returned to your finger. But, for the most part, everything you see, smell, touch, taste and hear already happened.

While Vipasana has very few hard set rules, one of its goals is stated to be “be here now”, what is called being “mindful.” Through practice, we move to eliminate the filters, shorten the lag of experience from 80 ms towards zero, and live closer to the true now. if the world I see is 80 ms old, what does the world really look like now? As we remove the filters that compress 400 billion bits to 200 bits, do we experience more of the information? I once heard a shaman comment that if you ever experienced the now, it would most likely drive you mad. Toss a ball straight up in the air. It goes up, it stops, and it comes back down. Here’s a question, how long does it stop? It MUST stop, logic demands it, and yet, mathematics predicts the answer only “approaches zero,” so it never does actually stop. Is it the same with being in the now? If, even through long work we can get infinitely close to the true “now,” can we ever actually reach it?

A thought arises, we can observe it without involvement, and watch it fall away, and then experience the silence between thoughts. With practice we can concentrate not on the thoughts, but on what lies between them. This experience invariable comes for me with time dilation. With more practice I can remain in the space between thoughts for what seems like a very long time. Thoughts follow the stream of time, consciousness does not. My sense is that we do not so much turn off the thoughts as we do slow down the time it takes for one to arise. I believe that in order for me to truly be here now, I would have to stop time. I also believe it’s possible, and happens all the time. The mystics call it “enlightenment.” The amount of energy required to do this is probably enormous, and I really imagine that I would not be able to maintain the experience. It is widely commented that the experience is worth the work. I am still doing the work, so I can’t speak to the experience yet. One thing I have taken away from it is that thoughts, and what is commonly believed to be “consciousness” is a shell of reality we wrap around ourselves. In truth, consciousness is quite different. When everything else is gone, it remains. Everything we experience arises from the foundation of consciousness.



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

There is a prophecy that the end times will begin with a very repressive overlord, who crushes the free people, who will be replaced by a savior, who will promote their emancipation, but will, in fact, be the anti-Christ. It all has a feeling of *too pat* for me to completely believe that Trump is what he seems. I feel as though a script is being read, a story told. I hope I am wrong, but if I am, will the people who truly desire the enslavement of all humans let it happen so easily? Consider, for a moment LBJ, who removed many an adversary to his goals, possibly including a President (Mac Wallace’s fingerprint was found in the sniper’s nest in Dallas). Consider the string of deaths that seem to happen around the Clinton’s when their agenda has been challenged. Now, consider that people like the Clinton’s and Johnson are not in the elite, they are, at best, lieutenants to the real tyrants.

I have said before that Trump is eerily similar, in a historical sense, to Hitler. He rises from nowhere on the wings of public anger and hate. The anger is well deserved, the past 50 years have been a nightmare for anyone who dreams of a free society. Obama’s reign has been horrific, with new heights of repression, surpassing the Soviets and closing in on such regimes as China and Iran. For anyone who understands what freedom and liberty mean (and by that I mean literally, as in, look them up in a dictionary) the last decade has been like a Lovecraft horror story or a real life 1984, the beginning of dystopia, every bad sci fi movie ever made.

Then, along comes Hillary Clinton, the epitome of elitist privilege, a traitor for the worst of reasons, personal gain, and an obvious sociopath. From the time she was asked to leave the Watergate investigation she has stumbled from one crisis to the next,  constantly embroiled in scandals. Drug trafficking and arms dealing. Fraud and embezzlement. Murder and espionage. While there is certainly some truth to the comment she makes that “its a right wing conspiracy,” there is also the immutable fact that a goodly amount of it is actually very scandalous and probably illegal. She is an elitist, who will bring to fruition the elitist agenda. She makes no bones about it, at least to them. To the rest of us, she lies, saying whatever opportunistic sound bite will serve her at the moment. Add to that the sad complacency of “mainstream media” which was exposed by the growth of the new media, the Internet. There has never been a more powerful argument for the protection of Internet freedom than the intense power it had over influencing the exposing of the Clinton Crime Family, and its ties to the establishment media. I seriously do not understand why or how she obtained a single vote. I sincerely hope she ends up facing justice for what she has done.

In the end, we have Trump. Even though I voted for him, I am scared to death of the man. I hope I am wrong about him. He has more power than any of us can imagine, the result of groundwork laid by Clinton, Bush and Obama. If he decides to start a Military-Police State, all he will have to do is use the laws he already has. As Martin Luther King wrote “everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was legal.” Trump has power Hitler couldn’t dream of.

The entire world is involved in a huge mass movement, which I often feel is in the direction of freedom. Arab Spring, Brexit and the beginning of the fall of the EU, everywhere the Globalist Agenda is failing. The elite still have many powerful weapons in their arsenal. They are waging an economic war, and while we have won a few battles, we haven’t come close to ending the war. Like the Confederacy in 1865, we face an enormously overpowering enemy. Like them, we have arranged a string of battle wins. Like them, when the going gets tough, the enemy will resort to total war upon us. Will Donald Trump be our “Stonewall” Jackson, or will he be their William Tecumseh Sherman? At this point, I really feel it is impossible to know.